[POLITICS] This is unconstitutional and a blatant attempt to manipulate the vote

"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee) 08/23/2020 at 09:08 • Filed to: Politics

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The governor of Tennessee has signed a bill that would remove protestors’ right to vote by making them felons. This also carries up to six years jail time.

We all know it’s not the conservatives who are protesting. This la w disproportionally affects left-leaning constituents and forces them to choose between having a say in the next election and standing up for their rights. The state of Tennessee is making no attempt to hide the fact that this is being done to manipulate the vote.

How many constitutional amendments does this violate? I count two - right to assemble and cruel/unusual punishment.

I really, really hope the supreme court steps in on this one.

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WilliamsSW > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 09:26

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Voter suppression seems to be the RNC’s main strategy this year.

I wonder why????

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 09:28

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oooo i know that one *raises hand*

we need to cut down on voter emissions to save the environment!

WilliamsSW > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 08/23/2020 at 09:31

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Great - now Qanon will be making that argument in 3, 2, 1...

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 09:36

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Because they know they don't have a good shot otherwise

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 09:37

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I really feel for you guys down in the US....the state of your current government is insane.....no offense...

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 09:39

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Farscy IS Qanon

facw > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 09:39

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Every year for quite a while actually. They knew after 2012 that demographics were against them, so they either had to adapt and become a broader party, or fight dirty, and it’s pretty clear which way they decided to go.

WilliamsSW > facw 08/23/2020 at 09:41

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True - but it's getting more and more blatant.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 09:42

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qbeezy > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 09:43

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The scary thing is that they used to try to hide voter suppression and gas light people. Now they are just blatantly doing so.

WilliamsSW > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 09:50

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I’m not sure they have any shot otherwise. I think the strategy is to sow as much distrust of the election as possible, then tie up the Supreme Court for as long as possible with it, and hope for a favorable outcome there. 

WilliamsSW > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/23/2020 at 09:59

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We are offended. But not by you...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 10:03

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The fact a state is trying to make protesting essentially illegal to kill voting is just beyond! :(

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 10:13

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Tennessee ACLU had been calling for him to veto. I expect by end of business Monday they’ll have filed a suit. 

Merkin Muffley > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 10:21

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You think they will get convictions in the next 72 days?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 10:42

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Not likely, but the idea of it is meant to scare people off of protesting. And, it doesn’t matter if they actually prevent anyone from voting in the upcoming election because the very existence of this law is unconstitutional. These protests are gonna continue a long while, so even if nobody is convicted for this election the next one can be affected.

Merkin Muffley > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 10:49

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Felons can’t vote. That’s been the law of the land for a long time. I’m not seeing the outrage on this one. Destroying public property in a mass riot is going to bring felony charges from the authorities.

Of course, over on the FP, the commenters heads are exploding that Liz would take a road trip to see her Canuck husband. “Don’t go out of your house! Never go outside you entitled beech!!!”

I’ll never understand the wild emotional swings of 2020. People need to take a deep breath and calm down. There’s plenty of room in the middle. JMHO

The Snowman > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 10:53

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The outrage is felony camping.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 10:59

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Think the felonies are absurd, but it is already illegal to camp on private property in most areas. They do have a right to protest but they do not have a right to put up tents.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 11:00

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They are making camping on state property a felony. This has nothing to do with property damage. If you stay overnight on the lawn outside the courthouse (or whatever) as part of a protest, you can lose your right to vote.

Of course felons can’t vote, that’s widely accepted. Whats ridiculous is that Tennessee lawmakers are specifically making protesting a felony so that the (liberal!) protesters lose the right to vote.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:01

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This sort of crap is why I'm more seriously looking into expatriating.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 11:03

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State property is not private property. It is paid for and maintained by our taxes, and used by people, who are paid using our tax money, in the service of us.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > facw 08/23/2020 at 11:04

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If not for their b ullshit dirty fighting we might already have been at Canada levels of healthcare years ago. And not toeing the civil war line.

fintail > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 11:14

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Hey hydrogen guy

fintail > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:16

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TN, is anyone surprised? Surprised it isn’t a little further south, but close enough. Deplorable murka gonna deplorable.  

old-busted-hotness-still-cant-comment > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:16

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More often in the service of themselves. Maybe pointing that out is a felony, too.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:16

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Then go build a house on it. Technically it is yours, right?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 11:20

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You know damn well that's not a valid counter-argument. Don't be childish.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > old-busted-hotness-still-cant-comment 08/23/2020 at 11:21

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Considering that's what the protests are about, and they've made the protesting a felony, yes you are correct.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:23

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How is it not valid? Govenment owned land doesnt mean that you can do whatever you want on it, regardless of whether you pay for it or not. It is possible to trespass, therefore it is possible to do unapproved activities. Otherwise every federal or stste property would be a homeless camp. Just because you are protesting, it does not give you any leeway towards violating other ordinances. That is why it is called "lawful assembly"

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 11:26

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Building a house is a bit of a leap from assembling, my friend. The park a few blocks away from me isn’t private property but nobody would be absurd enough to think that means one could build a house on it. You sound like those people who argue that gays marrying means there's nothing to stop someone from marrying a goat.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:29

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Disprove my point: you do not have the right to camp on federal or state property without authorization. 

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:30

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Are we expecting Tennessee to be a swing state? I haven’t looked at the records, but I’d bet money that they haven’t gone to a different party in at least 20 years.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 11:30

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So protesting has to occur within approved business hours? Ridiculous.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/23/2020 at 11:33

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An d it’s tactics like this that will prevent TN from ever being a swing state. There are massive numbers of people who wouldn’t normally vote blue who will be this election. This law is win-win for TN. Either the protesting ends due to fear of conviction, or blue voters lose their right to vote.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 11:38

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Protesting? No. Camping is not protesting.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 11:43

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According to the wording of the bill, simply having a cooler full of beverages  with you (“placing or storing personal belongings for future use, including storing food for consumption”) while protesting can be considered “camping”. Does it seem fair to you that that could result in a felony conviction?

Merkin Muffley > fintail 08/23/2020 at 11:47

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?

Merkin Muffley > facw 08/23/2020 at 11:51

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There’s a pretty interesting post up on Forbes about the tax ramifications...

How taxes work in this country are about to fundamentally change if this happens. Some wild stuff in the proposals. 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/23/2020 at 12:01

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No. It sure looks like they don’t want Nashville to turn into Portland, and want to have tools to protect their cities from turning into Portland.

The odd thing about Portland is that the wife and I have joked for many years about Portland somehow being the magnet for every runaway, wannabe anarchist and misanthrope in the country. No surprise that it’s been a center of bizarre behavior, but most of the Red States have no interest in “becoming just like Portland”. Boise just tossed their Portland-ish-aspirational  mayor for somebody more centrist.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 12:03

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This. The Brits have a pretty good model for this... Designated protest areas, designated times... knock yourself out.

If you try to camp on the Queen’s lawn?  They’re going to haul you off to see a magistrate.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:03

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You see a lot of taxpayers in that mob?

onlytwowheels > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:06

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Tennessee is famous for voter suppression.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/columnists/2019/04/17/voter-registration-tennessee-proposal-wrong/3496304002/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-a-large-scale-effort-to-register-black-voters-led-to-a-crackdown-in-tennessee/2019/05/24/9f6cee1e-7284-11e9-8be0-ca575670e91c_story.html

https://www.scalawagmagazine.org/2019/05/tennessee-voter-suppression-bill/

https://progressive.org/dispatches/tennessee-republicans-voter-suppression-stewart-190611/

WilliamsSW > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 12:06

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Linky?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 12:07

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It is funny to contrast the “response” here to what happened when the right wingers peace ably occupied Malheur. No buildings burned, nobody kicked in the head. FBI shot and killed protestors in that instance.

So, it’s hilarious to see the “jackboots and storm troopers” posturing in this instance... when the protestors have largely been left to destroy buildings and deface entire neighborhoods.  With zero legal consequence.

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:09

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No. But that wasn't my argument. I think the felony conviction is absurd. I just dont think people have some unalienable right to plunk a tent down wherever.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 12:12

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Again, the state is defining "camping" to include many other activities besides erecting a tent. One could lose the right to vote over simply bringing some snacks with them.

My bird IS the word > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:12

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That may be true, I am not familiar. Speaking of hypocrisy  would be a wholly different argument though.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:13

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???

My bird IS the word > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:18

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I doubt that would hold up in court. Doesn’t mean you can’t hate the law. As I said, it seems like a massive o verreach. But trying to defend it on the terms that these encampents constitute lawful protest when they specifically impact the rights of nearby residents simply because streets and government buildings are public property isn't logical. Violating excessive fines and punishments, sure.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > My bird IS the word 08/23/2020 at 12:19

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

The federal response was considerably more heavy-handed here...

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:21

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And our corrupt government would arrange those protesting spots and times specifically to minimize visibility and thus effectiveness  of the protests.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:21

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What are we responding to? The Malheur thing? That was in the news a lot in the PNW— and it’s interesting to see how the perceptions vary on this deal, in a very rural area of Oregon, versus violent protests in Downtown Portland.

Nobody on the left can make a viable claim of being mistreated when you compare to something like this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:23

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One (1) protestor was killed in that instance, because he was pulling a weapon on a law agent if I recall correctly. How many protestors have been killed this year? How many more have been left severely injured or permanently disabled?

HammerheadFistpunch > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 12:29

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The comments on that jalopnik article are crazy sauce.

My bird IS the word > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:30

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Ahh yeah I do remember that. Not quite sure its an apples to apples comparison. You have a mixed crowd with BLM so you cant exactly start blasting.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 12:47

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The question marks are in response to your accusation that the current BLM protestors aren't taxpayers

Merkin Muffley > The Snowman 08/23/2020 at 12:56

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I have a buddy who got a felony trespassing charge and a $25k fine for merely putting a kayak in the Yellowstone River. So cry me a river.

It’s their assets, their rules.

Merkin Muffley > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 12:58

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I have a buddy who got a felony trespassing charge and a $25k fine for merely putting a kayak in the Yellowstone River.

Not seeing much difference. Steep? Sure. Their right? Absolutely 

Merkin Muffley > HammerheadFistpunch 08/23/2020 at 13:03

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There has to be a class issue of some sort. You get the sense that some people are getting paid, staying at home, ordering Uber Eats and can probably do this for 10 years with little pain. The only thing they are short of is “empathy” and “understanding”

Others have lives in disarray, struggling, and trying to piece it together... so have vital trips to make. You take precautions and do what you have to do. 

So, yeah, some of those comments are absolutely bewildering. 

Merkin Muffley > WilliamsSW 08/23/2020 at 13:10

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2020/08/23/9-defenses-against-the-biden-tax-increases/

The end of “basis step up” u pends 150 years of tax planning. The “ratchet down” of the estate exemption is actually “impossible” relative to the Uniform Credit act and millions of tax returns already on file. Have no idea how they reconcile that, since you have binding tax opinions on file this would violate. 

If they actually enact all of this stuff? The financial economy likely goes catatonic became it violates all the decades of tax policy and consistency that got us here.

The people proposing all this stuff have zero idea how taxes actually work.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 13:10

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Red herring. While it's ridiculous what happened to your friend, it does not diminish what's going down in Tennessee right now.

Merkin Muffley > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 13:13

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Their assets, their rules. They can set any kind of penalty they want for Felony Trespassing.

The Yellowstone example is exactly the same thing. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 13:19

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I know I’ve certainly traveled in this time. Out of state? No but we’ve had visitors from out of state. I think one thing that people are really having a hard time wrapping their heads around is that it’s not all or nothing. The current science says that mask and hygiene will be MORE effective than another shutdown and still serve many vital needs people have that are curtailed with a shutdown. Its possible to live AND be safe, and in fact so long as you are doing it right it’ s the better option on many levels.. .including safety.

The Snowman > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 13:32

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Its our assets and our rules. 

Merkin Muffley > HammerheadFistpunch 08/23/2020 at 14:17

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Exactly. Masks clearly are effective . Be vigilant, work safe, take precautions. But we gotta go back to work or our problems will be 100x worse. Because millions will die if the Greater Depression sets in. 

WilliamsSW > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 15:37

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The article states that some of what’s listed is on the platform, and some is speculative. Not sure what’s what. Killing Trumps reform - entirely - makes perfect sense to me, and I’d love to see the carried interest exception taken away too. Estate exemptions are another matter.

Regardless of what happens, it's very reasonable to expect taxes to go up in the future, thanks to COVID. 

My bird IS the word > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 08/23/2020 at 17:10

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To be fair, it is a lot of hot air being put out by voters right now.

fintail > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 18:09

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Link or it didn’t happen.

fintail > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 18:10

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Superman or Clark Kent?

Nice try though. Diction is hard to escape.

Or maybe it’s the other arrogant wordy spoiled CA luckyboomer.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > fintail 08/23/2020 at 19:19

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Or maybe it’s the other arrogant wordy spoiled CA luckyboomer.

Ol’ I-M, with the yellow Sunchaser?

He’s dribbling all over one of the FP articles today (in the grey, for now).

fintail > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 08/23/2020 at 19:28

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Nah, the other one, who is into planes, dislikes Tesla (so there’s some hope), but plays devil’s advocate for the most corrupt regime whenever he can. The same line is being towed, either two names or one hell of a coincidence.

I haven’t seen Mr. Sunchaser in awhile, guess he has free time too.

WilliamsSW > Merkin Muffley 08/23/2020 at 19:45

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“ Felons can’t vote. That’s been the law of the land for a long time”

No.  It varies by state. Generally felons can't vote while incarcerated, and regain the right to vote after being released (after parole ends in many states).  Some states permanently revoke voting rights for certain felonies- not so coincidentally that’s mostly in former Confederate states.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > fintail 08/23/2020 at 20:19

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Ah, I figured that was the other one you’d mentioned.

Making & maintaining two separate Kinja accounts seems like more work than could ever be worth it, but some people here definitely have too much time on their hands.

*toe the line

punkgoose17 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/23/2020 at 22:19

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This is wrong on many levels. *Anger*

DipodomysDeserti > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 08/23/2020 at 23:06

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Yeah, ask the Bundy s what they think about the idea of federal or state property. Those guys make a living off squatting on federal land.

I’m sure you know this, but the feds didn’t do anything when they faced off with them in 2014.

Merkin Muffley > fintail 08/25/2020 at 11:30

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Sigh. It seems like kind of a low-stakes matter to use that trope... are you that unable to simply search “Yellowstone kayak ban ”? The history on this one is pretty well known at least in the mountain states where I spend my recreational time .

This outright ban has in fact been famous for decades i n the whitewater enthusiasts’ community... Yellowstone and Teton parks a re absolutely fanatical about keeping watercraft off most rivers in the parks. There is tension over this with the kayakers since the best whitewater o n the whole continent is in Yellowstone.

So by statute even getting a kayak wet begins with a fine of $5000 and 2 years in jail. Yes. Years. And the highest level misdemeanor tag. Repeat offenders get this bumped to “aggravated” and a first level felony tag. $25k-$50k fines and five years.

If that’s not weird enough, the parks have a dual justice system with a detention center (aka jail) and a fossilized old federal circuit judge to hear cases in the park. So you don’t get the benefit of a Wyoming or Montana judge but instead the biggest prick in the region... sent to the park to live out his days rendering sentences to speeders and motorsports enthusiasts as he ponders how his life went wrong.

My buddy attended Montana State and they would go up, as students, t o run the park at 2am. He got busted once and sentenced , by prick judge, as a minor and got a tap on the wrist. When he got caught, several years later, now an adult and holding a real job down in Three Forks? He got the book thrown and a $25k fine plus the hassle of paying a lawyer to come up from Bozeman to keep him out of the federal prison system.

Oddly, and this will blow your socialist mind, a bunch of GOP House members got together to sponsor a bill in 2015 to end this horseshit since a kayak or raft (my passion. I hate the rolls and cold water in my ears from those rolls in a kayak but rafting is great fun) has to be the least offensive human use of the park. Obama’s jackbooted Park service team came down to DC to insist the Parks needed these weirdly extreme penalties to “manage” the park resources and the bill failed. AFAIK you kayak the Yellowstone at your own peril to this day.

That’s the back story. Are you done whining?

fintail > Merkin Muffley 08/25/2020 at 12:15

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Wow, look at the diction. Seems so familiar.

Cool story bro.  Again, link to your claim or it didn’t happen. Like a coach might say, put up or shut up. Plenty of shit can exist on the books and not really be enforced. Cool story though. So now that Murka is under freedom and justice with the new regime, these laws have been thrown out, right? I mean, it’s been nearly 4 years since Obummer’s jackbooted thugs (maybe they hustle people into unmarked vans - oh wait) have been voted out, right?   I thought you people liked “law and order”.

You couldn’t define “socialist” if your life depended on it. What one expects from entitled coddled CA luckyboomer s (who also always seem to love outdoors cosplay) . I thought aviation stuff was the “passion”.

Merkin Muffley > fintail 08/25/2020 at 12:23

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I gave you the link. It's up to you to click it

Merkin Muffley > fintail 08/25/2020 at 12:29

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https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2015/oct/08/house-panel-oks-lifting-ban-paddling-yellowstone-streams/

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/local/a-group-of-paddlers-works-to-make-kayaking-legal-on-yellowstones-rivers/

fintail > Merkin Muffley 08/25/2020 at 13:29

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Thanks, that wasn’t hard, now was it.

October 2015? But jackbooted commie socialist thug Obama was in office then. So the brave warriors of freedom and justice in power for nearly 4 years now have ended this criminal injustice, r ight?

1986? That was the law and order America was great days of Reagan. How did this happen? $25 (I saw nothing about that 25K claim) fine and an impounded toy, crocodile tears. Someone had more of a penalty from a minor speeding ticket that same day. The right likes to talk about laws and follow it or change it, these guys can do it on the river, practice what they preach - as no doubt they are leaning a certain way to lessen their tax obligations.

Did anyone lose voting rights? You know, the subject of this before the kinda-whataboutism came into play. Being likely affluent (via parental help) white outdoorsy kids, I doubt it.